FACT:
Oshkosh has the lowest tax rate of 9 comparable districts for 2007-2008 school year:
Sheboygan $10.10
Kimberly $ 9.25
Eau Claire $ 9.15
Janesville $ 8.34
Neenah $ 8.33
Menasha $ 8.25
Fond du Lac $ 8.15
Kaukauna $ 8.13
Appleton $ 7.88
Oshkosh $ 7.39
Oshkosh has 4 more Elementary Schools and 2 more Middle Schools than similar sized districts in WI--- Eau Claire, Janesville and Sheboygan all have 12 Elementary schools (Oshkosh has 16) and 3 Middle Schools (Oshkosh has 5)
Oshkosh School District mill rate in 1992 (over $15 per $1,000 equalized value)
Oshkosh School District mill rate in 2008 ($7.39 per $1,000 equalized value)
What does that mean?
I'll use my house as an example --- in 1992 my house was assessed at $39,900 which means my school tax in 1992 would have been approximately (I don't have the exact rate but I know it was over $15 so I just used $15 as the rate) $598.50 ($39,900/1,000 =39.90 X $15 = $598.50)
In 2008 my house was assessed at $73,000 which means my school tax was $539.47
Well look at that my 2008 school tax was $59.03 LESS than it was in 1992 (that isn't even accounting for inflation) [$598.50 was worth more in 1992 than it is today].
If your house was assessed at $100,000 in 1992 and $200,000 your school taxes would have been:
1992 --- $1,500
2008 --- $1,478
That is what the revenue controls have done, in Oshkosh, they have cut the mill rate by more than half. I have to wonder about those who say the school district keeps increasing taxes. The facts just don't seem to bear that out.
If you compare Oshkosh with surrounding and like-sized communities Oshkosh's tax rate is significantly lower, which means we have done more with less dollars than other districts.
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Another fact to look at when comparing communities:
Board approves plans to cut 29 teachers in Kaukauna Area School District
Move would save $2.5 million, force course changes
At least 29 teachers will receive preliminary layoff notices today as the Kaukauna Area School District's fixed costs continue to rise while revenues shrink.
The layoffs, approved Monday by the Board of Education, could save the district about $2.5 million and come within $250,000 of closing a deficit it faces in 2009-10 due in part to the state's weakening economy.
"This is a tough time for everybody," said Jeff McCabe, the board president. He called the move the toughest decision he has had to make in his 12 years helping set the district's operating budget.
Among those losing their jobs next year are Carrie Forster, who serves as the district's special education parent liaison, and varsity football coach Mark Jonas, who teaches English at the high school.
"Those two are not any tougher than any of the others. As we would discover the names and say them out loud to a principal, one after another, the principals would say, 'Oh no. They're such a great teacher,'" Supt. Lloyd McCabe said. "We're losing the most recently trained, very passionate teachers."
A reduction plan presented to the board last month showed more layoffs. But the retirements and resignations of seven employees averted higher numbers.
In all, Kaukauna will have a net layoff of 21.75 teaching positions, given that some are partial layoffs. It is a near 10 percent reduction in teachers.
The district loses a total of 10 elementary teachers instead of 13.5 positions proposed earlier, meaning that class sizes still will be slightly larger than administrators and school board members had hoped.
First through third grade would range in size from 19 to 25 students, for instance. The numbers are comparable to what neighboring school districts have, Lloyd McCabe said.
The reductions also have led administrators to make curriculum changes:
-Health and computer literacy classes move to fifth grade from sixth grade.
-The district will discontinue offering a family life course in the eighth grade. Health classes already are required for freshman and sophomores.
-Oral communication will be fused with language arts classes.
-World languages will be offered every other day in seventh and eighth grade instead of daily so that students also explore courses in music and art.
-At the high school, keyboarding, dramatic arts and media technology courses will be discontinued. Oral communication will be integrated into language arts and algebra will be restructured.
"It is not an easy thing to do," said Jim Meyers, a board member and retired educator, as he recalled how 27 years ago he too was in those teachers' shoes because he received a layoff notice.
Even with the layoffs, Kaukauna remains financially vulnerable.
The district has built its budget on the chance it will receive a $100-per-pupil increase allowed under revenue limits, rather than the statutory increase of $289.
"We're taking a $400,000 gamble by cutting it by two-thirds," Jeff McCabe said. "I'm hoping they (members of the state Legislature) understand they've got to do something. We chose to do what we think would be the least they would do."
But with the economic climate in the state so dire, questions have surfaced whether Gov. Jim Doyle will give the state's 426 school districts any increase at all next year.
"We're not at all confident anybody can guess what the state budget is at this time," Lloyd McCabe said.
Teresa, I'm glad you brought this slide to light. The difficulty I'm seeing is that you're comparing apples and oranges. The mill rate is affected by the total number of homes in a school district.
Unless you can tell me that each of those districts has the same number of homes, the same number of students, the same budget needs, it doesn't mean anything to a statistician.
Everyone is going to see this information in the board presentation, trying to explain why we should vote yes. People of Oshkosh are smarter and too well-informed to be fooled into shame by that slide.
Opposite to what you post, the taxes for schools have gone up. The difference is that they are spread out over more people now.
As a city (and townships) we should be jumping up and down that our community has grown so much. It's a testament to our excellent businesses, schools, and recreation.
If you'd like to start a valid discussion comparing our district to surrounding districts of similar student size and overall budget, please start with this:
The Sheboygan district spends about 70% of the budget on salaries and benefits. We spend in excess of 85%. That's the real story in that slide.
If Oshkosh has the lowest tax rates, why are we spending more per pupil than for example, Kimberly, which is second from the highest?
Kimberly spends less per pupil but "their taxes are higher". It doesn't add up!
More information on a comparable school district:
Can Appleton Area School District residents afford higher taxes in this economy? Voters will answer that question Feb. 17 when they vote on a two-question referendum.
The first question asks voters to approve spending an additional $3.9 million in 2009-10 and $3.5 million more each year in 2010-11 and 2011-12 for a total of $10.9 million annually in operating funds to lower class sizes and update curriculum materials and instructional technology.
The second question asks to allow the district to borrow $5 million to improve school building safety and the district's technology infrastructure.
Based on reader comments and editorial board discussion, here are some questions and answers about those topics:
If both questions pass, how much will property taxes go up?
For the first question, the average yearly tax impact over four years would be 67 cents per $1,000 of property value, or $67 on a $100,000 house. For the second question, the average yearly tax impact over the eight years of bonding would be 8 cents per $1,000 of property value, or $8 on a $100,000 house.
Why can't the district afford it already?
Under the state's school financing system, each school district is only allowed to raise a certain amount of money each year — it's called a revenue cap. It gets some of its money from the state, some of its money from the federal government and other sources, and the rest comes from property taxes. In this system, a school district can ask voters in a referendum to spend more than what its revenue cap allows. Appleton, like most other school districts in the state, is facing a deficit again because its cost increases are outpacing its revenue increases. The projected deficit for the 2009-10 year is $3.6 million.
How will the next state budget affect the school district's budget?
Typically, the state funds about two-thirds of the cost of public K-12 education. The state is looking at a $2.9 billion budget deficit for the 2009-10 year and Gov. Jim Doyle said all areas of spending could be subject to freezes or cuts. The proposed AASD budget is based on the state continuing the same percentage of funding, which would increase the money the district gets by about $4 million. If the state funding is frozen at last year's level, Appleton's deficit will grow by that much. But under state law, if the state funds less than two-thirds, school districts have the ability to raise property taxes to make up the difference.
Why is the vote on Feb. 17, when there are few other elections on the ballot? Is this a way for the district to increase the chances of the referendum passing?
District officials say that, from a planning standpoint, it would be too late to hold the vote during the April 7 general election.
"State statutes say we need to notify employees in the bargaining units of layoffs by the end of April. That's when we have to give final notice," Don Hietpas, the district's chief financial officer, said. "We have to give preliminary notice by the end of March. We're trying to avoid laying off a whole bunch of people who, if the referendum is successful, we wouldn't have to lay off."
Added Supt. Lee Allinger: "The idea that we're trying to hide something, I don't know how much more transparent we could be."
Didn't the 2005 referendum fix the class size issue?
Yes. The 2005 referendum decreased the student-teacher ratios for the 2005-06 year to 25-1 for grades K-6 and 25.5-1 for grades 7-12. But continuing yearly deficits since then have forced the district to cut classroom teaching positions, among other cuts, each year.
"It seems like it was not very long ago," Hietpas said. "We tried to be as upfront as we could about saying this will help us for a period of three to five years. Next year, which is when we're asking for the additional funds, is the fifth year after the last referendum."
What's the district's tax rate now and how does it compare to other districts?
For the current school year, it's $8.01 per $1,000 of property value. In the 10 previous years, it had dropped every year but one. The high in that time was $10.34 in 1998-99; the low was $7.88 in 2007-08. The state average for 2007-08 was $8.43.
How much does the district spend per student and how does it compare to other districts?
In 2007-08, Appleton spent $9,156 per student. The state average was $9,510. Among 10 comparably sized districts in the state, Appleton was eighth. Madison was first at $11,215; Eau Claire was 10th at $8,979.
What role do teacher salaries and benefits play in the district's budget?
A big one. Salaries and benefits — not just for teachers but for all employees — comprise 85 percent of the district's $157 million budget.
As part of the state's school funding formula, school districts must give teachers at least a 3.8 percent yearly increase in salary and benefits to avoid going to binding arbitration. It's called the Qualified Economic Offer, or QEO.
Appleton just settled its contracts for the 2007-08 and 2008-09 school years, giving teachers a 4.5 percent increase for 2007-08 and a 3.8 percent increase for this year. The difference between 3.8 percent and 4.5 percent is about $600,000, Hietpas said.
According to the Wisconsin Association of School Boards, the average state increase for '07-08 was 4.2 percent and the average for '08-09 was 4.1 percent.
Health insurance cost increases have taken a big chunk of the increase in past years, but the district will save about $1.4 million a year on health insurance benefits after it and the union agreed to move from a front-end deductible plan to a provider-targeted plan. Wisconsin ranks fifth among states in the cost of its teachers' benefits, which are considered in general to be more generous and less costly for teachers than benefits in the private sector.
"The issue that we face is the pay and benefit side of things," Allinger said. "We do have $4 million more in the budget for next year. Why can't we live on $4 million? Well, we can't roll up pay and benefits 3.8 percent and make that work.
"When the Legislature established the QEO and revenue limits, they needed to balance it out better — either raise revenue or drop that QEO. Who's to say where that should be? What happens if the QEO goes away? That's what we're interested in. Right now, maybe folks are happy to have the QEO because it provides a floor for negotiations.
"The teachers association sees the issues. It's not just pay and benefits. It's post-retirement liability. It's going to have to be addressed across the state. I don't know if a district is going to make the type of headway on its own. It's going to have to be the Legislature maybe mandating in some way that something needs to change here, in which the parties involved sit down and come up with a plan."
Negotiations on a contract for the next school year haven't started yet.
"It's an entirely different landscape," Hietpas said. "I'd say nothing is off the table in terms of negotiations. The (teachers) association gets the environment we're in."
What role do pensions and retirement health benefits play in the district's budget?
The district's contribution to the state retirement fund this year is just under $7 million, according to Hietpas. Post-retirement benefits are just over $4 million. That includes the teacher emeritus, or early retirement, program, which is being discontinued. That'll save the district $400,000 a year. For union employees, both the pension and post-retirement health benefits are negotiated as part of their contract with the district.
Why can't the district save enough money on salaries, like a freeze, and benefits to pay for this?
Likewise, for union employees, that would be subject to contract negotiations.
Does the district have too many administrators?
Appleton has 63.1 administrator positions, with a staff of about 1,500 and a student enrollment of 15,232. The district spends $150 less per student on administration than the state average.
"We have fewer administrators now than when we had a lot fewer students," Allinger said, noting that several administrators weren't replaced when they left in recent years. "We will work to downsize as we have to and as we can.
"If people want current curriculum, our school improvement efforts are coming out of our curriculum department working with our staff. People who complain about teachers not doing their job, a high school that has 100-plus staff members has three administrators doing the evaluations.
"I think that's an easy target but people who know what goes on in their school and know the work that we do … we work our tails off."
Couldn't the district cut cocurricular programs to pay for this?
Allinger said, "If we wiped out all the cocurriculars — that includes drama, debate, forensics and all of our athletics — we'd save about $2.5 million."
He said the district sees cocurricular programs as "an extension of learning from the classroom."
Privatizing the programs is an option but, as Allinger said, "It's expensive. In a public school setting — where we have 30 percent of students on free and reduced lunch — it should be available to all."
Nevertheless, participation fees were increased last year.
Allinger noted that those who want to cut cocurriculars are "not a very loud voice. If we did decide to go down that road, it'd be a louder voice."
What happens if the district gets money from the federal stimulus plan?
It depends on what the stimulus money is supposed to be used for.
"All the referendum does is give us the authority to borrow the money and to spend it," Hietpas said. "If we get money in the stimulus package that would do what is intended with these referendum questions, then we wouldn't borrow the money.
"The (second referendum) question specifically says, 'to address matters of school safety,' so we couldn't take that referendum money then and build a track with it."
What cuts has the district made in the last few years?
Since the 2005 referendum, the district has cut 37.4 classroom teaching positions. It has also cut other teaching positions; administration, student services, paraprofessional, secretary and maintenance positions; curriculum materials; technology; building cleaning; transportation; and cocurriculars.
"We have reduced personnel, particularly outside the classroom," Hietpas said. "We have fewer administrators, fewer educational assistants, secretaries, maintenance folks. So we are reducing expenditures."
Has the district come up with any efficiencies that can save money?
In addition to the staffing and other budget cuts, Hietpas pointed to several specifics. He said the district is doing more contracting — building cleaning, for example — if it will save money. It also has collaborated with local governmental entities on technology projects.
Couldn't the district put its budget on its Web site?
Hietpas said it should.
"It's difficult because it's fund accounting," he said. "It's a different animal than what you see in business. But I think we can explain it in a way that makes sense and it's something we need to do."
What will happen if the referendum passes?
The district will still be facing a $1.1 million deficit in 2009-10, with projected $500,000 deficits the following two years.
"If the referendum passes, we're committed to keeping classroom teachers in place," Hietpas said. "That doesn't mean we aren't going to look for personnel reduction. We'll continue to look for other positions and then we're going to have to look at areas like capital projects and areas that are not identified in the referendum. We'll have to look at technology in areas other than what we're talking about. There are bits and pieces of things we're going to have to squeeze."
What will happen if it doesn't pass?
The district will be facing a $3.6 million deficit, so 30 to 40 positions will be cut, including 25 to 30 classroom teachers. And the other plans that are part of the referendum won't be enacted.
Reader reactions-
What will happen if the referendum passes?
The district will still be facing a $1.1 million deficit in 2009-10, with projected $500,000 deficits the following two years
OK PC; WHAT IS THE POINT? I HAVE TO CUT BACK, WHY NOT THE AASD ALSO DOING THE SAME THING? #1 NO & #2 NO
Wambo
Wambo you are right on!! We all have to cut back. To ask for more money from tax payers at this time is "pathetic".
Poor economy and job loss does not add up to more taxpayer spending on the part of the school board. Then again - they are the ones that are keeping their jobs. Maybe if some of the employees of the Appleton School District would feel different if their jobs and insurance were on the line like so many of us. Then more spending would not be an option. Did any of them read the PC's article on other area school districts - the economy is forcing them to cut back, not SPEND more. Make it work just like the rest of us have to make our budget work. Come back to the tax payers when the economy improves, not now.
VOTE NO!!
Oshkosh has 4 more Elementary Schools and 2 more Middle Schools than similar sized districts in WI---
Teresa wrote the above:
Teresa, did you support the Jefferson school referendum before it was build? After all, we have "too many" elementary schools.
Also, did you support the Carl Trager referendum? After all, we have too many schools!
Funny how the people (Dennis Kavanaugh/Karen Bowen) who were active on committees getting these schools built in the 90's now want other schools closed over 10 years later.
Anon. also wrote: "Opposite to what you post, the taxes for schools have gone up. The difference is that they are spread out over more people now. "
You are talking about total dollar amount, I am talking about the impact to the individual taxpayer. IF my individual school property tax went down $15 since last year, it is inaccurate for me to say my school taxes increased, simply because there were 50 more properties on the tax roll. Talk about comparing apples to oranges. My post was strictly about the individual taxpayers property taxes for school purposes. And frankly that is what most taxpayers are concerned with --- how much do I have to pay.
So anonymous 8:19 was your post intended to show us how Kaukauna has "mis-managed" their budget so they have gotten themselves into a $2,750,000 deficit and now they have to increase class sizes?
Of course I know that it is not mismanagement but revenue controls, the QEO and the state budget deficit that has nearly every school district in the same boat. Too bad some who know better would rather point fingers than acknowledge that Oshkosh has kept class sizes low, kept test scores above the state average and kept the mill rate lower than most districts in the entire state of Wisconsin.
Anon said "Teresa, I'm glad you brought this slide to light. The difficulty I'm seeing is that you're comparing apples and oranges. The mill rate is affected by the total number of homes in a school district.
Unless you can tell me that each of those districts has the same number of homes, the same number of students, the same budget needs, it doesn't mean anything to a statistician."
I wasn't posting this for a statistician I was posting it for property tax payers...
The fact is for a property tax payer, if you own a $100,000 home in Oshkosh your school tax will be $739.00 if you own a $100,000 home in Kimberly your school taxes will be $925, in Sheboygan the school tax would be $1010 I can't see how the number of houses in any of the above school districts would make any difference to what an individual tax payer pays.
Wow! This is miraculous. Iwould love to learn more!!!!
Anon. said "Teresa, did you support the Jefferson school referendum before it was build? After all, we have "too many" elementary schools."
Yes, I did support the Jefferson referendum and at the time, 10 years ago, there were not enough seats in nearby schools for Jefferson students to be accomodated.
Over 70% of voters supported rebuilding Jefferson.
If I knew then what I know now, I would have advocated that Jefferson be built as a 3 or 4 section school to accomodate Smith students, saving hundreds of thousands of dollars in operating costs.
I see no way to justify a school with 98 students using 4 classrooms, how anyone can call that efficient is beyond me.
How anyone can say spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on school buildings architects have said are not worth putting another dollar in, is fiscally responsible, again, I would have to disagree.
Some south side schools should be combined and boundaries changed to even out enrollments.
"I can't see how the number of houses in any of the above school districts would make any difference to what an individual tax payer pays."
We're all in this together.
I understand your argument that your individual taxes have gone down but the overall budget for the school district has gone up...up...up and the numbers of kids using the district services is going down...down...down.
We need to make changes before put our hands out for more money.
Let's revisit the fact that 70% of Sheboygan is salary and benes. 85+% of Oshkosh is salary and benes. (OASD has quality employees who should be paid well with reasonable benes. I'm not disputing that. There are just too many employees.)
The 800 pound gorilla in the corner......."There are just too many employees"
More expense than revenue.
Are we afraid to bring this out in the open?
Dropping enrollment = reduced staffing.
Teresa:
I have to say that I am completely offended by your continual attempt to divide this city. We have the perfect oppurtunity to close Lincoln and possibly Oaklawn and consolidate the north side elementary schools, but you refuse to acknowledge that and you point to the south side again and again. Well, guess what? This referendum is about building a new building on the north side while it should be all about consolidating on BOTH sides.
consolidating = less staff = more money for programs and maintenance
This is all smoke and mirrors...
First of all, Oshkosh has done a revaluation since 1992. Comparing the mil rate from then to now is apples and oranges.
And then you look at Sheboygan and their $10 per $1000 rate. The Sheboygan assessor records show a 2007 total valuation at $2.4B while Oshkosh assessor shows $3.7B. That will create a much different bottom line. If you multiply our value by our mil rate you come up with 3 million more than Sheboygan.
Now, who is paying more? Who is the lower spending district?
BTW- the current levy rate in Sheboygan is $9.63 according to the SASD website. More misinformation from the Theil camp.
Anon said "First of all, Oshkosh has done a revaluation since 1992. Comparing the mil rate from then to now is apples and oranges."
You missed the whole part of my post about how even if your property doubled in value since 1992 your school taxes would still be less.
Anon said "BTW- the current levy rate in Sheboygan is $9.63 according to the SASD website. More misinformation from the Theil camp."
The figures I used were for the 2007-2008 school year not the 2008-2009 school year. Sorry that wasn't clear, I've corrected my post.
consolidating = less staff =
EQUALS MORE MONEY FOR SALARY AND BENEFITS.
BTW; There is no consolidating in this referendum. It is just increasing the number of building by one $ 15,000,000 building.
So why talk consolidating because best case scenario, the board will have the same number of buildings assuming they sell Oaklawn.
Maybe, in a few years, they will sell Lincoln but the NET SQUARE footage of our district will still more more with the new school!
Teresa:
Thanks for providing the tax data.
I guess I don't feel too bad now I needed to take a second mtg. to pay my taxes this year. I feel better that I have to finance my ridiculous taxes because you told me they are low. :(
See this is exactly why it doesn't even pay to answer some of these naysayers. They aren't really interested in information. All they really want to do is argue -- and when you prove your point, they have a rude, cocky, or nasty comment. This is exactly how Michelle Monte has been in her many campaigns which I think explains why shes doesn't get elected.
Specifically to the posters remarks, if they had to take out a second mortgage to pay their taxes, and the school district's taxes have come down, they are probably addressing their nasties to the wrong person and about the wrong board or council. If they're in those kinds of dire straits, they'd best list their home for sale now and get out so they have less to bitch about.
I see you're back to resorting to profanity.
I feel badly for the person who had to take out a second mortgage. I don't know their circumstances. I also don't see how taking out a second mortgage is any different than the district asking for referendum money. Except that one has to pay it back and the other doesn't.
It is funny that Ms. Theil posted information on the mil rates of other communities and last night we see it at the BOE meeting. It still is not accurate information. Sure the mil rates may be 2007 but if you look at the same valuation data, Sheboygan actually pays $3 million less collectively because their overall property value is lower.
So you can say that Oshkosh is a lower taxed district all you want. The truth is that collectively, we put in more than the highest on your list.
It is pretty clear that 6:40 has no idea what the word "naysayer" means. They think they're being funny by turning the tables when the fact of the matter is they just look dumb. Also, the word "bitch" is not profanity so take a chill pill and relax.
About the comment of taking out a second mortgage to pay a tax bill, anyone who believes that is extremely naive. The expression "there's one born every minute" springs to mind. It's doubtful a person would refinance just for a tax bill. On top of which they're paying appraisal fees and closing costs (in most cases) to get themselves a couple thousand bucks at best. That's poor financial decision-making and if it's true I bet there's a lot of self-created reasons they're in the financial condition they're in. Besides, if you take the approach they claim they did, they'll never get caught up and will be in foreclosure soon.
I'm sorry that you're such a naysayer, 7:31.
I'm delighted that the board passed the vote to go to referendum so we can decide this and move on!
Miller Electric Mfg. Co. today announced plans to cut 165 jobs, or roughly 12 percent of its 1,400-person workforce in the Fox Cities.
Yup....we sure can afford that $25,000,000 referendum.
NOT!
Did anyone see the board meeting last night. Am I correct to assume the board doesn't even have enrollment data to support building a new school?
A member of the community asked for the data and you could a pin drop as the board has no data or response to the request for information on the enrollment.
You mean to tell me this board is going to spend $ 15,000,000 and they NEVER looked at enrollments?
What a joke!
Thinskinnned or skinflint, those who care about schools and kids will vote yes.
Scoreboards, bleachers, and a speaker system for an elementry school? What else is in this referendum that is unnecessary?
Why would you possibly need a scoreboard and bleachers in an elementry school? 1st grade FVA Basketball? Come on!
Thinskinnned or skinflint, those who care about schools and kids will vote yes.
Those that have a vested interest in the referendum success will vote yes......so expect a strong push from the teachers union to get out the YES vote.
"Feather the nest" is the phrase that comes to mind.
Anyone know what the plan B should the referendum fail?
Anyone know what the enrollment projections are for the proposed school?
I heard the board meeting last night too and now am wondering the same thing. What are the enrollment projections? Will this school have enough students in a few years to justify keeping it open?
Also, note to Dennis Kavanaugh. You mentioned the special ed population has been bounced around and the Sunset population's been bounced around. YOUR WERE ON THE BOARD FOR 12 YEARS, why did you allow this to happen?
Why do you create problems and then campaign against them when you run for re-election?
What else is in this referendum that is unnecessary?
How about the referendum itself.
Why build a new school in declining enrollment? Why build a new school when the board cannot afford to operate the ones we have now?
This referendum is not just about building a new school. There are 3 parts to it you know.
Anon 3:11 said "The 800 pound gorilla in the corner......."There are just too many employees"
More expense than revenue.
Are we afraid to bring this out in the open?
Dropping enrollment = reduced staffing."
What you fail to realize is that if the district loses 75 students district wide, they do not lose 25 students in 3 different classrooms (which would allow a reduction in 3 staff) no, they lose 2 students here, three there, from classrooms all over the district which does not allow for teacher reductions anywhere,
It would allow for more teacher reductions if we were to consolidate. That's for sure!
Close 3-4 elementary schools and maybe one middle school!
Thiel said-
"What you fail to realize is that if the district loses 75 students district wide, they do not lose 25 students in 3 different classrooms (which would allow a reduction in 3 staff) no, they lose 2 students here, three there, from classrooms all over the district which does not allow for teacher reductions anywhere,"
Then are class sizes are too small.
Increase class sizes, rightsize the teaching staff
and reduce the cost of labor.
SAGE is a scam for teachers who just want smaller classes. Teachers should easily be able to handle a class of 25 effectively. If not, find some who can.
how much is the per pupil expenditure for each of the cities you mentioned? i wonder how that compares?
Anon said "SAGE is a scam for teachers who just want smaller classes. Teachers should easily be able to handle a class of 25 effectively. If not, find some who can."
And you say this based on what expertise or experience?
I spent 7 years volunteering at Jefferson, both before it was a SAGE school and after and I know SAGE is NOT a scam. There are a number of research studies, one a longitudinal, experimental study which shows that students in classes with less than 18 students out-perform their peers in larger classes and those gains last post high school. but I forget that posters who make such comments are not open to facts, studies or even personal experiences. That doesn't change the facts.
I know what I observed over 7 years and I know without a doubt smaller class sizes, especially in schools with high poverty, make a HUGE difference in student learning.
Posted on the PC web page talking about the HUGE 165 person Miller Electric layoff -
".....Just wait to see how many workers Oshkosh Truck will be forced to shove out the door."
This 24 Mil referendum has NO CHANCE of passing.
Vote NO!
I'm no fan of SAGE but I think smaller class sizes are essential to learning based on research.
I'm not sure that smaller means as small as SAGE dictates.
Anon said "SAGE is a scam for teachers who just want smaller classes. Teachers should easily be able to handle a class of 25 effectively. If not, find some who can."
And you say this based on what expertise or experience?
I spent 7 years volunteering at Jefferson, both before it was a SAGE school and after and I know SAGE is NOT a scam. There are a number of research studies, one a longitudinal, experimental study which shows that students in classes with less than 18 students out-perform their peers in larger classes and those gains last post high school. but I forget that posters who make such
Look at the fall WKCE test scores;
Our SAGE schools are amongst the lowest performing schools! Oshkosh EAST's graduation rate is less than 70%. If these programs are so effective, the test scores would be higher and the graduation rates would be higher.
Scrap SAGE and invest the dollars wasted on this failed program in working with getting parents more involved with their kids education. Teachers can't do it alone and results have proved SAGE needs to be scrapped!
Who's Terry? Methinks anonymous is just being rude. But that's apparently acceptable to the naysaying supporters of the Just Say No candidates.
reading the ONW forums it sure seems there isn't alot of support for any of the referenda questions right now.
the teachers union better start the YES campaign soon.
Considering the few number of bloggers compared to the number of voters, you are quite presumptuous. You might just be quite surprised come April 7.
A record 600,000 people got their pink slips last month. I expect a few were voters in the Oshkosh school district area.
The naysayers who continue to say the economy is not bad and people are willing and able to spend money might be quite surprised come April 7.
it is awfully easy to not worry about the economy, and talk about the children and equality when you have a job. How many of you yes people have ever been on unemployment. After taxes, you get 175 a week. that is not much. how many of you have had to make the choice between food and clothes for you or your child? Like I said in the article, are all you yes people willing to go door to door, and directly aske the people that lost their jobs for the money? $52 may not seem like much, but when it is a whole lot when you don't have it. If you are willing to ask each laid off person for their money, then you can build your school. If you are so commited to your project that you can look the unemployed people in the eye, face to face, and ask them for $52 dollars, then build your school. Our mill is doing everything it can to cut costs out, just to keep the doors open for another year to get through this. it is not about the cost of cable, or the cost of a coffee each day, it is about people losing their jobs, people going on unemployment, food stamps, and welfare, just to have the BOE tell them: We're sorry you don't have a job, or a house, or a car, or even clothes, but would you please give us money for a school? We know if can wait two or three years, but we just don't care.
Although expected, I think it is even worse to try and label those against this plan as being somehow against education and not caring enough for children.
It is completely irresponsible for this BOE to neglect Oaklawn school to the point that they have. Parents and teachers at Oaklawn may have a legitimate beef, but it is with the BOE and not us that are against the BOE's poor budgeting and poor planning.
Many of us have raised legitimate questions and developed good reasoning to not support these referendum questions. I don't think that any of us would dedicate the time and energy if we did not feel strongly about education, our children and our schools.
I really don't want this referendum to be about the economy. As someone said, "there is no GOOD time to do the WRONG thing."
"The bankruptcy of an ethanol plant in Jefferson could lead to the liquidation of Olsen's Mill Inc. a family-owned grain and farm supply business that provided corn to the plant."
Can you only imagine how many local farm families will be devistated by this?
No more corn contacts.
Corn in storage at Olsen Mills and now no payment.
More and more voters experiencing hard economic times. A HUGE number of farms in Winnebago County had ties to Olsen Mills.
This will only mean more NO votes.
Only naysayers vote no, especially before they have all the facts. Ignoring the problems won't make them go away. Nor will changing board members.
Only teachers Union members will vote yes because they want to hide the fact that the maintenance budget was gouged in part to give them more benefits.
2:01
If you want to start name calling, two can play that game!
Really people why don't you check out at least a few facts before posting.
Oaklawn is not and has NOT been worth putting ANY money into...half that building was built by a bunch of neighbors 50+ years ago, not by professional contractors. The other half is about 18 years old and was built quickly without regard to appropriate classroom size or storage. It is a haphazard building that doesn't have enough rooms and the rooms it does have are inadequate. It would have been fiscally irresponsible to spend significant amounts of money on that building ---multiple experts have confirmed this to be true.
BTW if you don't have a house you don't pay property taxes.
Friday, February 13, 2009 6:19:00 PM CST -
Teresa Thiel said...
"BTW if you don't have a house you don't pay property taxes."
Oh, Mrs. Thiel - honestly?
Of course if you don't have a house you don't pay property taxes. Directly. But if you pay rent, don't you think that perhaps some of that rent going to the owner is going to pay property taxes???
Don't you think that perhaps if the property tax goes up, the rent might go up at the end of the lease?
Puh-leaze.
Teresa Thiel wrote:
Oaklawn is not and has NOT been worth putting ANY money into...half that building was built by a bunch of neighbors 50+ years ago, not by professional contractors.
Teresa, then why did the board (including Karen Bowen and Dennis Kavanagh-I am told) support putting on an addition less than 8 years ago on the building?
Why did the board propose closing Roosevelt (ranked it a "zero") two years ago and now propose a million $ boiler.
This board is all over the place and can't keep their story straight from one day to the next?
Teresa, I believe you were on the board in 2001, did you support the Oaklawn addition? I'll have to do some research and get back to the bloggers on this one.
But in the interim, why don't you answer that one for us all! Thanks!
A concerned parent of children in this district.
1. Close 3-4 elementary schools and possibly one middle school.
2. Consolidate with additions and upgrades. Create staffing efficiencies and save operating dollars.
3. Reprioritize and invest money in our existing schools as necessary to make them more energy efficient and correct deferred maintenance.
Theil said-"BTW if you don't have a house you don't pay property taxes."
Ok then, I guess you aren't as intelligent as you thought you were.
You don't think landlords sent rental prices to include the property tax payment?
DUH!
1) NO
2) NO
3) NO
I don't know where landlords "sent" rental prices but I doubt many will raise the rent to recoup $52. When rented here in Oshkosh I know my landlord did not raise the rent every year.
We all know this really isn't about ability to pay, it is about priorities and for some education just isn't a priority for others it is about some kind of twisted revenge against school board members you don't like.
I'm pretty sure the majority of citizens in this community do value education and value doing what is best for the children, rather then try and "make a statement" about their dislike of the current board.
Those opposeed are the same posters here and on the NW site, even copying word for word their posts. I predict there will be thousands that vote:
YES
YES
YES
whether that will be enough to pass or not NO ONE knows. And don't bother with your only teachers... nonsense, only about half the district teachers even live within the district -- they have never accounted for all the votes in a referendum...that is just ridiculous!
I agree that this is not about being able to pay and that it is more about priorities. There is no twisted revenge on my part. I disagree and am vocal on the blogs and that's about it. I'm sorry you don't agree with me.
I want board members that have similar priorities and I want to see a referendum that is based upon these similar priorities.
1. Close 3-4 elementary schools and possibly one middle school.
2. Consolidate with additions and upgrades. Create staffing efficiencies and save operating dollars.
3. Reprioritize and invest money in our existing schools as necessary to make them more energy efficient and correct deferred maintenance.
Theil said-
"We all know this really isn't about ability to pay"
Sounds like a snobbish remark from someone who hasn't felt the pressure of a job layoff.
Maybe someday soon you will.
Regarding the Tuesday Feb 17th primary election.
One position is for the Wisconsin State Superintendent of Public Instruction.
A non-partisan race with 5 candidates:
Rose Ferenandez
Todd Price
Van Mobley
Lowell Holtz
Tony Evers
When listening to a candidate debate, it is clear that all these candidates acknowledge additional funding is becoming almost unheard of, especially from taxpayers, especially during these difficult economic times.
Almost unanimously, they state that school systems must prioritize more efficiently. Current funding is limited and taxpayers are unwilling to offer additional funding when waste and inefficiencies are present. Some candidates propose specifics. One indicates corporations are skirting billions of tax dollar obligations using loopholes in the system. Those loopholes should be plugged. Another candidate advocates removing technical schools from the property tax payment funding. Those funds would be then redistributed to K-12 and Universities.
However all those attending the debate were sensitive of taxpayers ability to tolerate ANY additional taxes relative to education. Almost unanimously, they spoke about teachers and unions needing to understand the times we live in, and that most of those taxpayers going to the polls were experiencing stagnant or declining wages and benefits, and the teachers must understand that the voting public will not have any sympathy for contracts coupled to items like a minimum of a 3.8% increase.
Rose Ferenandez is clearly an advocate of the taxpayers. She believes in retaining the QEO and is an advocate of teacher merit pay. She is one candidate who does not come from the teacher bureaucracy. She speaks for taxpayers. She will receive one of my votes.
An interesting and very pertinent comment from an Appleton voter regarding the upcoming Appleton Referendum questions.
#1 No, And it will be the first time in 15 years as a Appleton school district parent I'm forced to say so.
#2 Yes.
The only individuals being asked to step up to the plate here are taxpayers. We've heard no discussion about teachers willing to freeze pay. No pay freezes for administrators or other staff members?
If you read other newspapers around the country, you read about all school district parties looking for ways to cut budgets, reduce administrative staff, get more for the taxpayer dollar, cut programs with minimal benefits, establish pay freezes for ALL district staff, etc.
The AASD Board is going to taxpayers with a large net for additional funding, in a time where taxpayers are reeling from the state of the economy. The AASD Board, it seems, has done little to look for alternatives, painful as some alternatives may be. When there's a referendum that demonstrates a blended solution to problems and challenges, then there will be a "yes" vote.
"Rose Ferenandez is clearly an advocate of the taxpayers. She believes in retaining the QEO and is an advocate of teacher merit pay."
Ths doesn't make sense. The QEO does not seem to provide for teacher merit pay, since it automatically gives a minimum of a 3.8% increase in salary and benefits to teachers every year. Given that I am surprised anonymous 10:17 would support this candidate.
Which candidate wants end these automatic raises teachers get? That process is totally unfair and isn't whats happening in the real world any longer. I'd support a candidate who wants to take a much firmer approach with the entire teachers union.
Hello, first of all 10:17 you only get one vote for Supt. of Public Instruction so I'm not sure what you meant by "she will get one of my votes"...
Second the Supt. of Public Instr. has NO say over the QEO only the legislature and gov. do, so it doesn't make a difference what they say about the QEO. So impressed with the informed voter, good grief.
Some horrible facts that I wish weren’t true………..
The economy, by every account is in shambles. We are in the worst economic crisis since the great depression. Job losses are 500,000+ the last two months. Some who are lucky enough to find re-employment are working at jobs with far less pay and benefits than they had at their previous position (under-employed) Those that have no “defined pension” plan and rely on 401K investments for their retirement have endured a 40% decline in their investment.
It is clear that people are suffering and just attempting to hold-on during this unknown period of economic decline.
Today on the front page of the local paper, we taxpayers who are struggling, found out that our school board thought the economy was not bad at all.
We found out that our elected BOE has given our entire administrative staff a 3.8% raise. The paper states our 49 “administrators” will now earn a total of $5,500,000.00. (Ave of $112,244.90 per administrator)
What the heck is wrong with this picture?
Our elected officials seem to think that all of us taxpayers are riding the gravy train and we can afford to keep paying these “administrators” high wages, UNBELIEVEABLE benefits and a golden pension plan…..all the while why we are struggling to keep food on our tables (even worse now that we have a peanut butter scare!)
This is bad enough, but it sets the coarse for more teacher benefits yet to come.
These BOE members (with the exception of Dan Becker) are totally out-of-tune with reality.
Time to clean this BOE house and install some elected officials who are fiscally conservative and speak and act for the average taxpayer, not highly paid administrator or a pawn to the teachers union.
I’m starting my protest by voting NO to all three referenda questions posed by this snobby BOE. They need a dose of reality!
how about a list of what per pupil expenditures are for cities in this area?
how about you quit distorting sage? there are almost no gains and the microscopic gains that come from it for certain very narrow small protions of demographic groups all disapear when class sizes reach 15. also no evidence it comes from sage and not other factors.
some honesty please. it woule be best to have some honesty when it will ocmes to cuts.
Ok, what is the per pupil cost?
Do NOT include the private schools as the OASD does.
Someone should really ask Len Hennricks (teachers union rep) if they would agree to a pay and benefit freeze for 2-4 years, Oshkosh voters would do there part.
After all, "it is for the children"
It is not uncommon in private industry for a company to add on or upgrade and then find they don't have enough money for pay or benefit increases.
Why would it be so odd for our teachers to ante-up to make their accomodations more inviting?
Something to think about.
Let's talk about what this new school construction is really about. It's not teachers and their salaries and benefits, and it's really not even about the families at Oaklawn.
It's really about Oshkosh North High School.
The very families that worked tirelessly to get North built. The families that were the "captains of industry" in Oshkosh.
These families are what is really behind this drive to build a new school that will attract the kind of families that THEY want to attend North High school so that it can go back to being the high school that it "was".
The same families that worked to build the tennis courts at North that ran into expensive cost overruns for fencing.
The families that Tom McDermott PROMISED that if he got re-elected he would work to please by building a new school.
What has been forgotten in the shuffle? That most of these families that built this city have sold out to other companies, resulting in a large net loss of jobs in the area.
Why doesn't anyone pointedly and publicly ask Karen Bowen how her husband's business associates stand to benefit hugely and personally by the construction of a school by the land that he owns and invested in for development?
There is a lot more than meets the eye with the building of a new school on Ryf Road. It's not at all about "poor Oaklawn". It's about the powers that pull the strings in this community, or think that they do.
Don't be fooled by the clouding of the issue. Oaklawn needs a lot of help to be repaired. If we want to do that for the sake of the Oaklawn families, that's one thing. If we're building a large new school to appease the McDermott's, the Traskas and the Bowens, that's quite another.
This last comment is nothing but gossip, innuendo, and unsubstantiated bullcrap. If the poster has evidence of some crime, kickbacks, or illegal election activity, they need to report it to the appropriate sources. But forums like these are no place for this kind of gossip and slander and the remark should be deleted. I'm sure Michelle Monte will publish it if they want to send it to her. She thrives on it.
If we're building a large new school to appease the McDermott's, the Traskas and the Bowens, that's quite another.
Even more reason to vote:
1) NO
2) NO
3) NO
The BOE is next. This group is not going to look the same when the new BOE is seated.
Not crime, illegal election activity, not kickbacks.
All just exactly what happens during an election cycle.
People make promises in order to get elected. They believe that they will make the changes they promise to make, but life gets in the way.
Helping someone else get business because of you assisting them and paving the way doesn't mean you get a kickback. It just means you're helping them get ahead. Again, what politician has not done that?
No one is stealing. Some people will definitely benefit indirectly. Go ahead and ask the folks themselves. It's not exactly a secret nor a coverup. It's perfectly OK to question your elected officials.
Appleton Coated LLC will temporarily lay off 63 workers due to a drop in demand for coated paper in recent months.
In a statement, the company headquartered here with a mill in Combined Locks employing about 700 people said the length of the layoffs would be dependent on business conditions. At this time, the company said it could not project when order demand will be sufficient to resume a four-shift operation.
The firm said it would convert to a three-shift operation on March 9, which will result in the temporary layoffs. Layoffs will begin the week of Feb. 22 in order to meet training requirements.
The company said it took four temporary shutdowns of operations since Thanksgiving and a fifth one is slated for four days late this month.
How do you think these 63 workers will vote? Will they support or appose using their tax dollars to fund Appleton’s referendum today?
Here’s one thought posted on the PC webpage-
1quidproquo wrote:
Ask one of the 63 workers that will be laid off from Appleton Coated how they will be voting on an increase in their taxes...how do you think they will vote? DUH
Many will be looking to the results of the Appleton school referendum as a harbinger of Oshkosh's referendum.
One comment worth sharing from an Appleton voter today:
"I will be voting NO for both measures today (budgets are there for a reason. Stay within them please) and will not vote for Tony Evers for superintendant simply because I will not vote for any candidate supported by WEAC (the greediest of all the lobbiest groups)"
Friday 12:39.
Asking every person, whether they have a job or not, is exactly what will happen on election day so your point is a little weird and not understood. It's not like anyone's reaching into someone's wallet and taking the money without asking.
Tuesday, 9:58.
If there's been nothing illegal done and no crimes have been committed I have no interest in your unsubstantiated muckraking. Sounds to me like you're either jealous or just wanting to tell a story where there isn't one. Either way, I'm unimpressed with your loose lips (or is it fingers) and silly talk based on nothing more than your overworked imagination.
Oshkosh Corp (Truck and Pierce)
Just announced a 3% across the board wage reduction for all plant and office employees.
In addition, there will be mandatory time off with no pay requirements until the workload increases.
And we just gave our school administrators a 3.8% increase and the BOE will want to do the same for teachers.
The BOE is totally out of step with what is happening in the Oshkosh economy.
FOR THE LAST TIME IT IS NOT A 3.8% WAGE INCREASE!
The next poster to post that will have their post deleted!
Care to comment about the horrible news at Oshkosh Truck Teresa?
Hmmm, nothing about this on the ONW's website yet, making me wonder if this is not an employee or company insider spreading the news. Doesn't Kent Monte work there as a federal employee? Could he or his wife be busy blogging about it.
Odd,
I've heard the same news for 2 different people. One has a wife who works at Pierce, one a friend at Truck. They both told me the basic same news.
Somebody here got a "scoop" on the Northwestern, but that wouldn't be too hard to do I expect!
It really is terrible news and is the knife in the referendum vote. The school board should just pull it because it will go down to a huge defeat.
Most people who work at Pierce don't likely live in Oshkosh so won't be voting on the referendum. And even with a 3% cut they're still making excellent wages and can afford an extra $50 a year. Many Oshkosh Corp employees live in the towns, where many taxes are even higher than here. So they don't seem to have been too badly affected by the economy. This is more about corporate greed than anything else. Million dollar bonuses for Bohn and others like him while they stick it to the workers making them rich. Even with a dip from record profits the companies, including Oshkosh and Pierce, are still doing very well, especially since everytime we turn around they're gettign another contract.
Sure you can keep dreaming.
I also heard from a friend that they stopped company contributions to the 401K and that they are going to start mandating unpaid weeks off (Like Mercury in FDL) so if it's your week you can take vacation if you have any or you can file for unemployment that week.
I'm betting none of the guys affected will care and they all will be happy to pull the lever to help pay for a $24 million referenum.
Suuuure they will!
This is Karen Bowen responding to:
"Why doesn't anyone pointedly and publicly ask Karen Bowen how her husband's business associates stand to benefit hugely and personally by the construction of a school by the land that he owns and invested in for development?"
My husband works at Service Litho Print. How does this benefit him? His colleagues???? They are printers. I suppose it's possible that the two owners of Service own some land on Ryf Road, but that does not benefit Ted in any way.
Now if you are talking about my SON, Ed, who works for Alexander and Bishop, which IS a real estate development firm, but mostly deals with commercial property, I suppose one might infer that we could benefit from his business (although that is TOTALLY untrue, but truth does not seem to matter in these forums), but in fact, Alexander and Bishop does not own any property there. They actually do own property that the board rejected as a site for the school -- and from which I abstained in even discussing, and in fact, left the room when it was discussed. But again, why would anyone care about the truth?
So much for factual blogging. Any questions?
Karen Bowen
I did not post the accusation, but I have heard rumors of conflict of interest.
Mrs. Bowen:
Are you in any way friends, acquaintances or associated with any of the owners and developers of North Shore Preserve? If so, could you clarify to what extent? North Shore Preserve is the existing residential development near the proposed new school location.
Thanks
I know Kathy and Russ Reff. I see Kathy once a month or so. Is this enough for a conflict of interest?
Karen Bowen
I don't know, I am not an attorney. Didn't she also serve on your re-election committee?
Yes, the last time I had a committee, which was about 6 years ago.
And I would benefit from Kathy and Russ's involvement in this property how?
Karen Bowen
Mrs. Bowen:
As long as I have your attention can you describe to me why you would support building a new $15,000,000 school in a declining attendance area that all students would have to be bussed to?
Actually, this has been in the paper so often, you already know the answer, I am sure, so suffice it to say that one look at Oaklawn school, and the fact that Sunset deserves its own home, is enough. I am signing off now because I must move on to something else.
Could I ask you why you have not answered my questions?
Karen Bowen
Mrs. Bowen:
Have you read the PMP report? Have you read the part about utilizing our existing schools instead of building new.
What questions might those be?
Why does Sunset deserve it's own home school? I never understood that logic. Using that Logic, we should close Jacob Shapiro and Smith and bus those children to a new 4-section home school for the 100 children at Green Meadow.
"Yes, the last time I had a committee, which was about 6 years ago."
When was the last time you and the BOE went to referendum for a new school on Ryf Road?
Mrs. Bowen:
Are you in any way friends, acquaintances or associated with any of the owners and developers of North Shore Preserve? If so, could you clarify to what extent? North Shore Preserve is the existing residential development near the proposed new school location.
As someone who knows a lot about "conflict of interest" this is a ridiculous question. There is NO conflict of interest with something your acquaintances are involved in. If that were the case, very few elected officials would be able to vote on anything.
These posts make it clear to me that your "no" votes are all about personalities and who you don't like and has nothing to do with the actual issues.
Mrs. Bowen has more than answered your questions so any more postings on the subject I will delete them.
For your information anon. 4:34 Oaklawn is NOT in a declining attendance area, in fact it is one of the few elementary schools that is projected to have increased enrollment.
Please posters, try to get even a few facts right before you post.
Teresa:
How can you be certain about that assertion?
I think that the fact that Karen Bowen's friends own a subdivision that would benefit from the new school and that those friends are also active in her re-election campaign is, at least, something that should be aired out. It may not be illegal by the strictest sense of the law, but it certainly would be ethical to disclose.
It's unfortunate that she didn't see it that way.
Teresa Thiel said...
Anon. 8:12 Too bad you can't read carefully... the last time said "friends" were involved in Mrs. Bowen's re-election campaign was 6 years ago. There is no ethical dilemma here, and CERTAINLY no conflict.
My question for you is exactly how would these friends "benefit" from the new school?
The ethics laws clearly state:
19.59 Codes of ethics for local government officials, employees and candidates.
(1) (a) No local public official may use his or her public position or office to obtain financial gain or anything of substantial value for the private benefit of
himself or herself or his or her immediate family, or for an organization with which he or she is associated.
Except as otherwise provided in par. (d), no local public official may:
Codes of ethics for local government officials, employees and candidates.
(1) (a) No local public official may use his or her public position or office to obtain financial gain or anything of substantial value for the private benefit of himself or herself or his or her immediate family, or for an organization with which he or she is associated.
(c) Except as otherwise provided in par. (d), no local public official may:
1. Take any official action substantially affecting a matter in which the official, a member of his or her immediate family, or an organization with which the official is associated has a substantial financial interest.
2. Use his or her office or position in a way that produces or assists in the production of a substantial benefit, direct or indirect, for the official, one or more members of the official’s immediate family either separately or together, or an organization with which the official is associated.
Here is the definition of immediate family:
(7) “Immediate family” means:
(a) An individual’s spouse; and
(b) An individual’s relative by marriage, lineal descent or adoption who receives, directly or indirectly, more than one-half of his or her support from the individual or from whom the individual receives, directly or indirectly, more than one-half of his or her support.
So you can see from the above definition that since Mrs. Bowen's son is fully self supporting, he would not, for purposes of this code be considered "immediate family" but Mrs. Bowen recused herself from discussions, even though under the law, she didn't have to.
Why don't you check out the FACTS before you post your nonsense?
Actually, I think it's very cool that Ms. Bowen did respond personally.
You see, when people are left to speculate on their own, they don't get the facts straight. There is a great deal of misinformation and rumor out there because people simply don't know where (or stop to find out where) the facts may be.
I think one thing that Central Office is responsible to do is to provide information to parents and the community about the school district. Every other district we've lived in had regular communications- community columns, newsletters, updated websites in which the Superintendent of schools talked about what is going on in the district. Without information straight from the mouths of officials that is factual and reliable, people will guess and fill in their own blanks.
I don't think it's the job of the Board to communicate with the district. It should come from Central office and school administrators. Community members feel out of the loop in general, and this may or may not be reflected in results at the polls.
Thanks, Ms. Bowen, for some information.
I'm on the fence regarding question 2 on the referendum. I want schools to be properly repaired yet I don't understand how we know which schools to invest in heavily without a long term plan. Is there a plan that I am missing?
How long does it take to build an elementary school? I'm wondering if we can wait a little to build this school until we see some growth of any type happening in the north? Or is it absolutely essential that this school be built today?
The time to build a new school is now, since the bids will be very competitive given the economy, it will cost less to build now than it will in the future. The new school will also allow 2 schools to close (Oaklawn and Lincoln) which will result in hundreds of thousands of dollars of savings in operational costs.
Schneider was right in saying offer no contracts to some and one year contracts to others but once again, this board choose to take the wrong approach. But they are "advocates for kids." Just ask them after they layoff 45 teachers!
I wonder if Teresa will even allow this to go through as she has been censuring people lately. I'll also post on another site.
No Schneider was not right, because giving all administrators one year contracts still would not allow you to terminate them for next year, only the following year so it would have NO impact on next year's budget...those adminstrators with contracts that allow the district to layoff even with a contract, already have a one year contract!
Would you care to let us know which administrators you would lay off?
Schneider didn't say give them all contracts Teresa. Look at the previous post and reread. Seems you are so clouded by hatred, you cannot even read clearly.
In terms of who to cut.
Athletic director
Two in Central office based on how the superintendent would restructure but I would say, Birth to Three coordinator and Director of Assessements. Maybe a third (or second)central office if B-3 couldn't be done..
Teresa, aside from raises our taxes, and increases our fees, what is your solution? It seems you just criticize those with solutions as having no solutions, then they provide them and then you criticize them..
Judging by the blogs and letters to editor change is coming! People are not willing to continue to extend a board tenure when the board members have been in the majority and have accomplished deferred maintenance after they have been provided a record budget!
"Schneider didn't say give them all contracts Teresa."
You are right, I was confusing him with Mr. Becker. But Schneider was vague... give "some contracts"... what does that mean.
I agree with you that we should cut an athletic director and I even spoke to the board on that topic and I can tell you that's NOT going to happen. The ONLY board member who supported eliminating an athletic director was Mrs. Weinsheim. Both Mr. Schneider and Mr. Becker were opposed to cutting an athletic director as well as the rest of the board. As for the Birth to 3 Coordinator that would save less than $10,000 since the majority of the salary and benefits are part of the Community Services Budget which is separate from the School District General Fund. As for the Director of Standards, I would have to disagree with you on that position as long as the NCLB testing remains in place. There needs to be someone to take control of all the testing as there penalties and fines for errors in testing can be quite substantial.
Even if you cut the Director of Standard and the B-3 Coordinator, you have saved less than $150,000 which leaves over $1.8 million to cut.
Why don't you find it suspicious that in the past Mr. Schneider had no problem voting for teacher layoff lists? Now that he is running for office he is suddenly so concerned about teacher layoffs? In the past he stated that he would cut budgets by increasing class sizes. If he would be a "responsible spender" why would he allow classes with 9 or 10 students to run? Why would he allow Green Meadow to continue when there are only 95 students in the whole school?? I don't see that as fiscally responsible at all.
Responsible spender Teresa?
It seems the school you volunteered at for many years has 9-11 students per class. Jefferson.
Should we close that school too? Think of how we could save by doing that? (I don't support but your positions are just not fact based)
How much can we save by closing Green Meadow?
Lets close central office and move to South Park? How much can we save there?
Lets close the south park pool, how many can we save there?
I find it interesting the previous poster corrected you in you lie and you only write "You are right, I was confusing him....."
I don't know what your fixation is with people that want to solve problems the ones you support created but it is getting old.
You should keep an open mind and realize the ones that didn't create the problems are trying to solve them.
We need to work together to solve problems and not continue to support the ones that have lead us here!
Thanks. And please, be factual. It really helps to strengthen the debate and find common ground!
Please advise which facts I've stated that are incorrect. Also please advise which classrooms at Jefferson have 9 students in them. You can't talk about facts and then throw out supposed facts without backing them up.
One thing you fail to mention about SAGE schools is that the state pays the $2250 for every student that qualifies for free or reduced lunch. Since that rate at Jefferson was 63.1% and if in fact there was a class with 9 students 63.1% 5 would qualify so that classroom alone would get an additional $11,250. Nine students in a non-SAGE school brings in no additional dollars. However, if in fact there are classes at Jefferson with only 9 students that tells me there is room in Jefferson to close Smith and send most of the students to Jefferson.
As for the savings in closing Green Meadow you would save .5 fte principal, 1.0 fte Secretary, ? fte custodian as well as portions of fte for phy-ed, music, counselor, art etc. I don't know the total dollar amount but just closing Sunset and sending the students to read saved over $100,000.
While he was on the Board I just didn't see any indication that Mr. Schneider actually wanted to work with anyone to solve problems. Instead he would throw out an idea AFTER the board team had negotiated an agreement. That is just grandstanding not working to solve problems. He voted against roof repairs because he found some contractor who would do it for less by leaving out fire retardant materials, even though the fire marshall said these materials were necessary. Those aren't the kind of solutions I'm looking for.
You must not understand school financing if you don't understand why Oshkosh and nearly all other school districts are in the situation they are in. Read news papers from around the state, most districts have the same issues as Oshkosh it's called the school funding formula.
Not many problems are solved by voting no.
What no comments after your friends are elected to the board?
No comments on Ben uttering the words tax increase, or Michelle endorsing the closing of schools?
I thought you'd be all over them for the changes.
I really miss your side of the story.
Have you given up?
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