Today at the ASC/CRT meeting someone suggested that to save money, perhaps East High should be put into Emmeline Cook Elementary and that school could become a smaller Elementary school than it currently is and the left-over classrooms could be used for East High.
I wonder what people's thoughts are on that suggestion?
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27 comments:
Do you like the plan that is coming to the board? Do you think it addresses our long term needs.
Well I sure don't like the idea of an alternative high school in an elementary school.
I think the current plan does a lot to take care of a number of issues the district has...especially being more efficient in staffing and closing bad buildings.
What about doing the same thing but with the 4K to get them out of the daycares and churches?
Look I don't know what the right solution is to the boundary problems but the district clearly has to do something. I can tell you that I get a real kick out of these people like Vikefan over on Oshkonversation threatening lawsuits. Is that supposed to scare the district?? They need to get a clue. They complain about their tight budgets on one hand but have plenty of funds to hire a lawyer who'll take their money to instigate a lawsuit they have no prayer of winning. Lots o' luck folks. You're going to need it.
I have to agree with the last commenter. I think there are good and bad arguments for any plan this district comes up with. But doing nothing is not an alternative. It will also do no good to engage the district in a lawsuit that can not win. They are elected officials doing the job they were elected to do and making tough, unpopular decisions. Unless they have done something illegal a court can't, and won't stop them. These pockets of people need to get a life and stop getting so worked up about everything. They'll live longer.
Michelle Monte is still one of those leading the charge against the current plans. I get such a kick out of this woman's "signature" on her postings. She says "Expect the Worst, find the worst. Hope for the best, find a reason to smile." This may be the first time she's right. Voters have come to expect the worst from her, and we certainly do find it.
I find it amazing that after a couple of years supposedly following the school district, Ms. Monte still doesn't get the concept of "efficiencies of staffing"... making schools smaller (as in her suggestion that E. Cook be made smaller to save money on rent for East High) makes staffing less efficient and therefore MORE costly...
The about $40,000 per year the district would save in rent would easily be eaten up in inefficient staffing. Moving Sunset into Read saved at least 2 teaching positions to the tune of about $100,000. It would work the same for 4K if you were making an elementary school smaller to accomodate 4K and I don't think that rent for 4K is even $40,000 per year.
The key is to have at least 4 sections of each grade level for staffing efficiencies.
I also agree that a lawsuit is ridiculous. The school district has the right to set boundaries wherever they see fit of course if a judge allows a suit to go forward, the money the district will have to spend to defend such a suit will be money that could otherwise be spent on education. What a shame, all because some want to isolate their children from anyone who might be "different" from them.
Speaking of staffing efficiencies, how is it efficient to have 70% of our K-3 in SAGE schools where we have to staff for 15:1 ratio. Wouldn't it be more efficient to have a 20:1 or 25:1 ratio? Yes, it would be mroe efficient, but the academic trade-offs aren't necessarily worth it. I really do not see how reducing the seats in an already underutilized school and finding a good use for the excess space is inefficient. Since I am by no means an expert, could someone please explain this?
If I am not mistaken, to have four sections in a K-3, you would need at least 16 classrooms. I know Lakeside does not have 16 classrooms. I have my doubts about a few of the others proposed to be kept open have 16 classrooms for 15-17:1 ratio plus rooms for special ed and EC, so where are the efficiencies and academic benefits in this configuration. How many buildings do we really have that fit this?
Same thing with 4-8, you would need at least 20 classrooms plus special ed in each 4-8 building. That might work in Traeger, Merrill, and Webster but what about South Park and Tipler? Where is the equity and efficiencies?
Mrs. Thiel, you seem to want people to support your position. I can only assume you plan, or are considering, running again (which some appreciate). However, I am one who does not put much on someone who simply says so-and-so is wrong without explaining thoroughly how you are right.
This is not about not wanting our children to go to a school with someone "different". This is a far more complicated issue. You know better than to make a blanket statement like that. There are many issues in play here, including the safety of our children. Most of us acknowledge diversity is a good thing. How we get there is another issue.
You do not necessarily need 16 classrooms to have 4 sections of each grade K-3 at SAGE schools, Jefferson and Webster for sure have had one classroom with 2 sections of a grade sharing the classroom. It is not ideal but it has worked at Jefferson since SAGE was implemented there.
As for SAGE and wouldn't 20-25 be more efficient... you are forgetting that the state pays the district $2,000 for every child who qualifies for free or reduced lunch which offsets the cost of the additional staffing, staff development and other SAGE requirements, in many cases the additional dollars cover all these costs.
Making a school that has 3 sections of each grade go down to 2 or fewer sections per grade does nothing but increase staffing costs.
I find it interesting that the same people who are outraged by the district suggesting 4th graders be in the same building as 8th graders have no concern with Ms. Monte's suggestion that would put "At Risk" high school students in a school with elementary students.
Have you been to E. Cook? Have you been to East High? Do you really think that is a good and viable suggestion?
Finally for ann --- I can say with great certainty that as long as my husband is a teacher in the Oshkosh School district I will NOT run for the school board. Likely I will never again run for the school board in Oshkosh.
I agree 100% with you on the E. Cook / East High being a terrible idea.
What do you think of the Town of Algoma considering suing the OASD over the boundary issue? Maybe it is time for the town to start their own K-12 school.
I think they should start their own school. They're nuts for thinking they'll get aywhere with a lawsuit.
Oh, I sure wonder what the tax rate would be for a Algoma School District... wouldn't they have to purchase the Oakwood school, build a middle and high school pay a superintendent/principal... I say good luck to ya. You think taxes are high now...
Yup, figures Michelle Monte would take a contrarian approach to the Algoma township's situation. It should be clear to anyone with even a modest degree of intelligence by now that no matter how kind, warm and this woman acts she is always looking to point the finger at someone in the district and be of the self-centered opinion that her position is the only possible solution. The town doesn't have a leg to stand on in this matter. The board can institute a boundary change. That is part of their legal charge and no lawsuit can stop them.
An a side note I would like to say that for someone working on English as a major for her Masters' degree, she might want to accurately state phrases she likes to quote. It is "could have, would have, should have" though people ususally use slang or broken English and say "Coulda, woulda, shoulda." At no time however has it ever been nor would it be grammatically correct to say "could of, would of, should of." That doesn't even make any sense. I would think someone as intelligent as Mrs. Monte could figure that one out.
I read Ms. Monte's latest rant about the boundary plans. Can this woman NEVER, EVER EVER get her facts straight? She writes how the Town of Algoma sent a letter asking to be included in the boundary discussions and that that is referenced in an ONW update this afternoon. The update says no such thing. The update says that OASD originally sent a letter to all townships telling them they'd eventually be met with to discuss the 10 year plan. She went on in her "Sermon From The Mont(e)" to talk about a letter she claims was sent by the town but that was never acknowledged. I don't know if a letter was sent or not, or if it was even received by the district. If it was perhaps it was overlooked amongst the dozens and dozens of emails the district has been juggling from a past school board member who's on a massive Open Records fishing expedition the likes of which these parts have never seen.
Anyone else get a load of Michelle Monte at the school board meeting tonight?? Does this woman really expect us to believe that school board members are sitting up there rolling their eyes when she speaks?? Though tempting and probably appropriate because her constant repetitive messages are a yawn, I can tell you there was no one up there rolling their eyes. Just because that may have happened once uppon a time does not mean it happens with regularity as she would like us to believe. She only wants to paint herself as some kind of victim. She's hardly a victim, but there's plenty of other names that fit her like a glove. Get over it already Michelle. Life in the here and now is better than the past.
The school board should crack down on the ongoing applause at its meetings. People may feel enthusiastic or agree with the speakers' comments but this is a business meeting and applause really is not at all appropriate for such a setting. It's not allowed at county board meetings or those of the common council. This body should disallow it also.
If this is a business meeting, why are not all members dressed like it? Why is a past BOE member, who should know this is a business meeting, passing notes and giggling with that same inappropriately dressed BOE's mother and best friend?
It is nice to see some of the board members looking to the future before making a decision. You have to wonder about Karen and Amy. They are so desperate for ANY change they seem to go along with ANYTHING administration brings forward. Remember the 9-10 11-12 conversation when one said "I would vote for this tonight". What a mistake that would have been. Yes we desperately need change, but we also need to make the correct decision. There are so many variables here. When we do make a decision it needs to be part of a long term solution. It never hurts to ask questions. Afterall we are in this position due to many poor decisions made over the years by administration and past boards. Lets do it right this time.
Did anyone see this sentence in the story in the NW today (Aug. 9)
"Algoma Town Board Chairman Richard Spanbauer said he was invited by Heilmann to sit on the planning team a few months ago but declined."
link to entire story: http://www.thenorthwestern.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/OSH/70808180/1987
So much for "not including anyone from the town".
And when one has to sit in the audience and listen to people continually make inaccurate statements, yes it gets annoying. Teachers do NOT get free lunch, nor have they gotten a 4% WAGE increase in the last 10 years.
It is even more annoying listening to board members who clearly don't understand or haven't read the material they are given and don't have the common courtsey to inform administration ahead of time that they would like more information. Why didn't Mr. Becker ask for Econ. Dev. data at the ASC/CRT meeting (or any time between that meeting on July 30 and the board meeting) when everyone on the ASC/CRT were asked was there any information that should be added for the board presentation?
Frankly I lost patience listening to Mr. Schneider go on about how he "accepted the boundary change for his children" but "neglected" to mention that in fact his children do NOT go to Franklin where they were supposedly redistricted just another politician telling part of the story. He also doesn't seem to understand that 8 years from now, if boundary changes need to be made, the board at that time will decided what lines should be shifted based on whatever policy is in place at the time. It is just another delaying tactic. No boundary change suggestion now would require any future board to actually follow said suggestion so why stir people up on what is really a bunch of "what if's". What if Oakwood is under capacity in 2012 by 75 students? Should we have a Phase 2a for that scenario? What if Traeger is over by 200 students what would we need then a Phase 3 or would that be 2b? It gets ridiculous trying to account for what if scenario's based on data of children NOT even BORN...
I really think Schneider needs to grow up if he can't handle a little eye rolling. The way he treats presenters he doesn't agree with (remember his treatment of Sue Panek from United Way) tells me he doesn't believe respect is a two way street and frankly, I believe one earns respect, one doesn't just deserve it because you wear a suit!
Yes Teresa, you are correct. Mr Schneider's kids did not go to Franklin. Not because they are open enrolled in another school like Ms Weinsheim's kids, it is because HE MOVED to another neighborhood the summer before his kids entered kindergarten.
Talk about not telling the whole story. What did you say about politics? Are you sure that you aren't still planning on running? Because comments like yours sure seem to make it likely.
As for the "eye rolling", you play it off as nothing but it is DISRESPECTFUL to do while someone is speaking even if you disagree with them. Didn't your parents teach you anything? Most parents do teach simple manners. Maybe you missed that lesson.
What? Someone can't have a strong opinion of something without people like you making assumptions they're going to run for office. This is not the first time we've seen such tactics and with a certain element we have in local politics and with the junior politician wannabes it's quite likely it won't be the last.
Seems to make sense that she would run because she is already taking shots at the credibility of the board member that is up for re-election in April. Why else would she take the shots like she is.
I guess it has too much common sense for anyone here to understand.
Anon said: "Mr Schneider's kids did not go to Franklin...it is because HE MOVED to another neighborhood the summer before his kids entered kindergarten.
Well if he moved before his children were ever sent to the "new" school why did he go on and on about how "he accepted the boundary change" really, he accepted it so much he moved so he would never be subject to it.
As for eye rolling, I was sitting in the back of the room, why is it Mr. Schneider is soooo concerned with my thoughts on his comments? As I said before. Grow up and be a big boy, if you are so sure of your comments, shouldn't really matter what anyone else thinks. He is rude to plenty of the people who come before the board to present, whether they be district employees, hired consultants or members of the public. I think his shouting at someone sitting in the audience from the board table is 20 times more rude than someone in the back of the room rolling their eyes because a politician won't tell the whole story, lest it show them is a less than perfect light.
Maybe she "takes shots" as you call it, at an elected politician, regardless of when he's up, because he is currently in office and works for her, like he does everyone else. She isn't criticizing his politics anh more now than before, so what is the big deal. Maybe she's critical of him for the same reason some of you (Montes and Esslinger) are critical of others who aren't even running for office or who don't even have positions that are elected ones, but are appointed instead).
Mayeb this is all just too simple for YOU beause YOU are the type of person who constantly searches for controversy with anything someone says or does and who continually wants to paint your foes in a negative light. That seems much more likely than anything else.
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